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PERM: An Up To The Minute Course

by Joel Stewart, et al.

Editor's Note: The following are the materials for this seminar.

Citations for ILW.COM's Seminar
"PERM: An Up To The Minute Course"
Session 1 held on August 25, 2005

For more info, or to signup online, click here.
For more info, or to signup by fax, click here.

From Edwin Rubin

Citations from Edwin Rubin

From Sofia Zneimer


Development Database

How to find county Date Calculator DOT Wage Question:

I have several employers who are small, but have been around for awhile, but either do not really have internet access, or if so, don't have anyone who can master registering for PERM. I do not want to use filing by mail, because of the inherent dangers of clerical imput errors on DOL side. Would it be unethical for me to go to the employer's site (his/her home since most are small, but have enough funds to pay workers -- landscapers, small restaurants -- and do the registration for them, since they have little patience or inclination to "work with computers"?

Answer by Edwin Rubin:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the attorney going to the employer's web site to input the registration. There is no need to go to the employer's computer to file the actual PERM application if the proper sub-account has been set up by the employer for the attorney.


I always post for 31+ days on the SWA websites. But the New Jersey SWA pulled my SWA 30 day posting only after 27 days. I then had them reposted, so it has posted a total of more then 30 days but not consecutive. Does the 30 day SWA have to be consecutive or can I file now?

Answer by Sofia Zneimer:

According to § 656.17(e)(1)(i)(A), the job order must be for a period of 30 days. The regulations do not state 'consecutive.' However, the start and end dates of the job order entered on form 9089 "shall serve as documentation of this step." The form does not provide for a number of days nor does it have space for two or more alternative periods totaling 30 days. I would recommend posting for 30 consecutive days.


When you put on the ETA 9089 form that a Master plus 3 or a Bachelor plus 5 is acceptable for the occupation, what was the standard language that you said had to be on the application or else it would be denied? And where would you suggest putting it on the form? It was something like "any combinations of education..."

Answer by Sofia Zneimer:

According ot § 656.17(h)(4)(ii) If the alien beneficiary already is employed by the employer, and the alien does not meet the primary job requirements and only potentially qualifies for the job by virtue of the employer’s alternative requirements, certification will be denied unless the application states that any suitable combination of education, training, or experience is acceptable. This should be stated in the block for answer to question H-14.


Can you confirm the addresses to be printed on the in house posting?. Is it both? Chicago Processing Center and Atlanta Processing Center? Or, just the one location which is appropriate to the actual filing location.

Answer by Michael Piston:

20 CFR 656.10(d)(3)(iii) states that the notice must "Provide the address of the APPROPRIATE Certifying Officer" (capitalization added).

That certainly would be the (one) Certifying Officer with jurisdiction over the application.


I have a question regarding "qualifying applicant".

Currently, I have a case that there is a qualifying applicant (from the advertisement) who holds H-1B visa, and I would like to know if it is legal to reject the applicant for not holding permanent resident/citizen status.

Answer by R. Blake Chisam:



What is the date of the memo from Bill Yates that addresses Schedule A processing?

Answer by R. Blake Chisam:

Yates' Schedule A memo,


We would like to clarify one scenario:

Employer did last recruitment step (ad) and we calendared 30 days so that we could file a PERM LC online. On 39th day we got an applicant responding to the ad right about when we prepared the "audit" file and were ready to file. Is employer supposed to interview the applicant even though it is technically outside the 30 days window? Or we can disregard the applicant as applying outside the 30 day period?

Answer by Edward Litwin:

Under the old regs the job offer was theoretically open to u.s. applicants up until the day the certification was approved. i have not read the perm regs with this question in mind, but i assume that the dol policy would still be the same. unless anyone thinks differently.

Answer by Joel Stewart:

I agree with Ed Litwin that you should consider the job open until a final decision is reached from DOL (approval or denial of LC). However, if an application pending at the DOL is approved before a final decision is made about the US worker, then the certification would be valid.

Remember, that the employer is looking for a US worker, not just a certification for an alien worker. The certification process does not end until a certification is issued. Hence until that point the application is still pending.

About The Author

Joel Stewart, et al. are the speakers for the PERM: An Up To The Minute Course seminar.

The opinions expressed in this article do not necessarily reflect the opinion of ILW.COM.